Yoshi and Trek
Training Diary - November 2008
By Ellen Clary
(reverse date order)
Our You Tube Video Archive is here
the human's blog see: The Non-Dog Blog
Non-Dog Blog Table of Contents
Sun Nov 30
Back from a weekend at Terri's moms. The dogs do like going as
she has carpet and they can race around - they don't like the gravel
yard but they cope.
On Sat we saw the new Pixar movie Bolt
and it's terrific. Yoshi is such a Bolt wannabe. To the
point of assigning himself duties that he really doesn't need to
do. It really helped me understand him.
His sworn duty is to protect us from mysterious dogs approaching.
Oddly enough especially from dogs the look a lot like Bolt - maybe he
works for the other side. His M.O. is the citizen's arrest.
(Hasn't been allowed to do this for a long time but I'm glad i
understand it now) meaning a bite and hold on the suspect until someone
else pulls him off.
He's done enough herding training that he should how be able to control
himself but twice during the weekend he very much wanted to Get That
Dog. To the point of leaving claw scratches on me, so he still
doesn't completely trust my judgment. I think this means that
the CAT idea of making him stay in the situation probably isn't going
to work as he truly feels threatened (unless I completely commit to it
and CU works so much better for him.)
Leslie McDevitt just posted an amazing video of all 4 of her dogs out
playing and a strange dog (with requisite clueless owner) approaching
and her dogs focusing on her. Astounding and a lot of people are
saying: geez I can't even get one dog to behave.
Here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byPqy3yzzXI&feature=channel
Post to cu_dogs
I just saw the movie Bolt (a great film - very recommended) and my dog
is such a Bolt - sworn to protect even if no one needs it. Fortunately
he limits his citizen's arrest attempts to strange dogs and not humans.
I was just reviewing one of Leslie's video
YouTube - CU McDevitt Dogs Demo in a field
and I must admit to being pretty depressed about it. I simply have no
idea how to even get Yoshi even close to that point. We've hit a
plateau and I'm not sure how to proceed further.
We can do the relaxation protocol all inside, but outside he's not been
able to. I need to figure out a way come up with an intermediate step
and I'm not succeeding.
One thing that appears to help his self control issue is herding
training, but we have a ways to go in that.
Also I finally got to see It's Me
or The Dog which features British Dog Trainer Victoria Stilwell.
I liked it very much and wrote another post about it:
So I finally got a chance to see Victoria Stilwell in action. I liked
what I saw.
It's funny that TV animal trainers have to have personalities that work
well on TV and I do find the prim and proper almost dominatrix look
that they've chose for her amusing.
I really like her approach of using and teaching basic techniques that
most dog owners can learn and she takes a lot of time to teach them.
This isn't some Dog Whisperer showing off doing things that only he
should try (and likely not even him). This is not dog training rocket
science at all, but it was positive reinforcement and some negative
punishment techniques (like turning your back to deny the dog access to
jumping up on your, combined with good management (walk that dog, block
the dog's access to the bed or room), and even with some clever shaping
thrown in to make door charging not rewardable.
Glad I have dog TV show that I can recommend to people.
Also saw a Dogs 101 episode and that was good too.
Another cool thing is that you
can watch It's Me or The Dog online. I just watched the 5 pugs
episode. the previous episodes I say were about Harley the Great
Dane and another about a pit bull mix.
Mon Nov 24
Started out on a typical noon Yoshi walk. 5 minutes into the walk it became something else entirely:
[Note GGPWCF is Golden Gate Pembroke Welsh Corgi Fanciers]
Today I was just given the most extraordinary gift. I was out walking
Yoshi and a man who lived near me called out to us saying "A Corgi
Person!" Thinking he just wanted to get a Corgi fix we went over to say
While he didn't mind the Corgi fix he had been waiting for a Corgi
person to appear (he knew there were some of us in the neighborhood).
His name is Ray and his mother was Anita Suderman who bred Corgi's in
Templeton during the 70's. She passed away and left a lot of Corgi books
and magazines. He debated giving them to the library, but knew that
they wouldn't be that important to just anyone, and would be very
important to the right people. I mentioned that the Golden Gate Corgi
club might be interested. "Oh, she was a member." "Oh really?" Sure
enough, he brought out two boxfuls of GGPWCF publications from
the 70s. It's really quite amazing and I'd love to find a way to get
it to whoever in the club functions as the historian. Would the Corgi
Faire be a good time to drop it off or should I take it to someone's
The photos are a kick.
I have heard back from them and they are very interested and I will
drop them off at the Corgi Faire on Dec 7th. Looking again I see
that there are Corgi League books from 1947(!), and some cool newspaper
clippings including one that talks about the Corgi actor in Disneys
Little Dog Lost movie, which I'll need to scan first before turning
At least 6 of the kennels listed are still in existence and the old photos of people I know are just great.
Oh and Yoshi was fine on his walk and greeted Ray very nicely though he did sort of bark at Ray's, cat but chilled out.
In a couple of places on the walk, we were able to play LAT on
squirrels that were on the ground. Funny how different he is if
they're not moving.
And it's so funny to compare how differently Yoshi and Trek respond to
seeing a squirrel low in a tree in the yard. Trek who has some
predatory instinct, races right at the squirrel, where Yoshi runs off
to try to out flank. Such a herding boy.
Sat Nov 22
What a great session for the Yosh-man. He started off doing his
usual charging around and me charging around after him. HTrainer3
made some adjustments on the fly of what to work on. We put a
long line on him (no surprise there). she had us just working on stay
as when I finally got him to down it was clear that he had enough self
control to be able to do it, and she also convinced me to try a wand
that had a rock filled water bottle on the end of it (noisy).
That did work and did not freak him out excessively (it did some, but
not so much as to make him shut down and it did get his attention) and
I was able to get him to stop and down/sit sometimes.
The stay work was perfect for him. I had him in a sit on a long
line and walked to the sheep (retaining the end of the long
line). He'd break and I'd reel him in. I'd put him back and
got a little further before he broke. I reeled him in
again. The third time I got all the way to the end of the line
and he was staying. I returned to give him a treat. I
turned around and walked towards the sheep again and again reached the
end of the line and he was still staying, I slowly put the line down on
the ground and walked all the way to the sheep and walked back to him
to tell him he was a good boy and gave him another goodie. I then
headed back to the sheep and HTrainer3 said I could release him this
time. That's huge progress for him.
I also did a lot of running since I'm supposed to stay in between him
and the sheep. So the deal is put him on a stay, walk to the
sheep, release him and what ever direction he goes in to take the sheep
in the other direction. This cuts down on him running right at
the sheep and getting better flanking.
When he was tired and moving more slowly we worked on release/walk up,
down/sit, walk up, down/sit, walk up ... This is how you teach them to
slow down. Although the reality for him is that he'll slow down
when he's tired, but then he's able to learn things.
An amusing moment was that no sooner did HTrainer3 say that we didn't have
to worry about him taking down a sheep (which I knew, but it's nice to
hear that she thinks so also - she apparently had some instinct test
dogs this morning that were very excited about sheep for lunch which
made things rather exciting she said), than Yoshi chomped on a sheep
leg - smart ass - he stopped as soon as we yelled for him to knock it
off, and the sheep seemed fine, albeit a little peeved at this little
pipsqueak. Oh, and as you might guess he continues to be
entertaining to watch (so I'm told) even as we're slowly getting more
control over him.
So he's going to keep coming here. The ground is also softer so
he doesn't tear pads which is really nice. And oh darn, I have to
keep going to the ocean to a town that I'd love to live in (or Half
Moon Bay) if it wasn't so far away from work.
Fri Nov 21
Before class we worked on a 3/4 height teeter. No problem though
I did mute it crashing back. During class however I had Rachelle
standing by to mute it and Trek saw her approach and decided that the
teeter was scary again (honey it's the same dern teeter) and she
wouldn't do it without a lot of encouragement. Maybe I should
stop putting pressure on her about it. Also I notice that I'd
been trying to keep the teeter quiet when she's on it and then getting
far away before it crashed back. She still hates that (drat).
She was also really sniffy looking for treats on the ground. I'd
nag her and it wouldn't help. I think I'm just going to leave
next time as that's the one thing that reliably works with her.
Some walks, not much drama, been busy finishing up a non dog video - more into in the Non-Dog Blog.
Mon Nov 17
I have this hare brained idea that might just work. I've been
trying to find areas where Yoshi can encounter other dogs and parallel
walk with them but with them at a distance. There is such a place
but it's risky as escape routes are few. Lots of people walk
their dogs on the multiuse path right beside the beach. It just
occurred to me that I could just as easily walk Yoshi on the other side
of the very wide street.
Downsides are many. It's a very busy street and on the other side
of the street there will be a lot of cross traffic. It's so not a
good place for a doggy temper tantrum and it has to be essential that
he can't escape or he could be killed by a car. There's days I
have excellent control of him and I walk him on a martingale or a
gentle leader with a fail safe (on either). But what about other
dogs that may be walking on that side as well? That's going to be
tricky and I'll have to drive past a few times to see how busy it
is. A sat photo is here.
Looking at the photo, another possibility is to just walk him on the
path and if a log approaches step off the path. Safer from a car
point of view, but closer proximity to dogs and chaos and no parallel
walking opportunities which is the level that he's at. Maybe I
can do it at a lower dog traffic time.
Sat Nov 15
Yoshi Herding at HRanch3 with HTrainer3 HRanch3 has a
wider range of pen sizes and HTrainer3 is very happy to teach Corgis so it
was a good match. At first, he started out being a juvenile
daemon which landed him in the small pen, then he seemed to settle down
some and HTrainer3 could better see what his skills were and where he
needed work (The Stay.) Once he was tired and the sheep were
across the pen, I was able to demonstrate his remote down and sit.
HTrainer3 said that he needed to learn to work further away from the sheep
(the downside of doing all that work in the round pen) and we talked
about my being in between him and the sheep and encouraging him to
flank out instead of charing the sheep. He does have a good
outrun but then after he rounds them up he then wants to charge at them
(which scatters them so he can gather them up again. I need to
draw a diagram of this as it was really helpful. After the outrun
and when he turns to me, he should down, which interrupts the charging.
She stayed in the pen and kept Yoshi from charging the stock which helped immensely.
Later at a party I was talking to a co-worker whose wife does
agility. He noticed at a trial that Greg Lougainis' partner has a
shirt that says:
Note the first column. Terri and my Co-worker were both thinking they needed one.
Fri Nov 14
Trek agility I can't keep her off the teeter now. Cool - though
it was less than half height. We worked on game skills tonight -
snooker and gamblers.
Thu Nov 13
Yoshi noon walk. No dogs but he worried about a toddler on a Big
Wheel being pushed by an adult with a pole like thing (sort of dog like
in a way :). i held him by the collar so he could get a look at
it and after some grousing, relented, and no longer reacted to
The pull on the leash is definitely a cue that he's taught himself to
look at me (and I often reward it.) If there's something that's
stressing him he doesn't respond right off but it's something we can
Wed Nov 12
Yoshi noon walk. Uneventful.
Trek eve. walk. Took the same path as previous walk with her and
right around the same place (Pearl and almost to Santa Clara) she again
had her ears up and seems hyperalert and walking faster though less
so. In a block her stress level went down. Interesting.
Tues Nov 11
Noon Yoshi walk - no dogs. I'm noticing that he looks at me when
I tighten the leash. If he starts stressing and standing on his
toes I can tighten the leash and I can get his attention back.
That's nice - I reward him for it too.
Mon Nov 10
Noon Trek walk. We walked in the other direction than we usually
do so we go by the school first. There weren't a lot of kids
there, so she seemed ok. What's odd is that in the next block she
started trying to drag me. I couldn't see or hear anything, but
she sure could. Dern dog hearing. I'll have to continue to
walk her that way to see if it's consistent.
Sun Nov 9
Terri and I were at a political rally (see the nondogblog if you're
curious) in Sacramento so the dogs just hung out at home and Mark and
Jan were nice enough to let them out to pee.
Sat Nov 8
Trek Bayteam CPE Santa Rosa
I am so proud of Trek. For the afternoon, the teeters appeared on the
courses and the sound of the teeters echoed loudly under the arena
cover, and she was terrified and basically had an emotional meltdown
(glad we don't live around thunderstorms), and despite being given lots
of time away from the ring she could not cope running with the sound
around and I had to carry her shaking off the jackpot course and
straight into Suzanne Deghi's Massage Tent for some stress relieving
accupressure and back to the car crate to chill out for 2+ hours.
Suzanne said to consider scratching her from her last run, but it was
her standard run and I didn't want to give up on it just then. We
were the last class of the day and luck was with us that the other ring
had finished so no teeters. As the class started, I brought her
near the ring and she started to shake. We found partial refuge
in the equipment trailer of all places where she could still hear the
goings on but it was muted. After some minutes and some
accupressure and treats and just letting her come to terms with the
dampened echoing she started to relax a little. I decided to give
the run a try, while concentrating on keeping stress out of my voice
and not worry about speed.
She did it. Flawlessly. No charging past obstacles.
No zooming around. No jumping off of contact obstacles or
concluding that the tunnel was too scary. She Q'd, got 2nd, and
now has her CL-1 title. Such a brave doggy.
Though we are going to wait a bit on competing in covered arenas
which puts a bit of the kabosh on more winter trialing save for NADAC
at Wag. Oh well. Goodies will be at class on Friday.
She also Q'd twice in the morning in Jumpers and Snooker (level 2) but
those were more erratic with her running by jumps and me screwing her
up by over handling.
I think the lesson today is that she does better the more relaxed I
am. It's a bummer in a way as I'd like to use my voice to build
excitment to start to work on speed, but it just makes her stressed and
erratic, so it's zen handling for us and we'll have to worry about
After I've had sometime to think about it, I'm realizing that what she
has is a version of Thunderstorm Phobia, which I've never noticed as
well we don't have violent thunderstorms here. Funny though she
doesn't react to fireworks, but I manage that exposure pretty carefully
and I made a video of it here:
It appears the issue is the precussive feel of booming sounds.
Fri Nov 7
[noon] Yoshi walk.
I was interested in perhaps trying some modified CAT technique (which
I'll describe later) with Yoshi and today an opportunity presented
itself. Thing is Yoshi's generally pretty good but still has that
immediate lunge emotional response that I've gotten a fair bit of
control over using desensitization and classical conditioning
(mainlining treats). but we seem to have hit a plateau of not
getting a reaction at street width plus one house width, but anything
closer gets an initial reaction. His herbal supplements and his
training have helped him to have a quick recovery. We're to the
point of him reacting, my catching him by pulling (not a jerk) back on
the leash and saying something like firm but neutral "no" or "hey" or
"leave it." He recovers and starts offering rewardable
behaviors. The past few months I've never let him get to that
point by blocking him and shoving cream cheese in his face. That
gets us through the encounter but it hasn't been as successful as I'd
like at really changing his emotional state. He'll eat, but the
other dog still stresses him.
CAT takes a different approach of using relief of the pressure of the
other dog leaving as a reward. As long as your dog is still
reacting, the the other dog stays around. As soon as your dog
lets go of the reactions, the other dog leaves. CAT uses no
rewards, but my experience is that if your dog is offering rewardable
behaviors then s/he gets rewarded. Since I have good control of
Yoshi these days we can work through an incredible amount of drama
without the owner of the other dog even being aware they're taking part
in a dog training experiment and we keep enough distance that the other
dog feels ok.
So after playing LAT on some cats we were walking down Central (big
wide street), and I see a person across the street walking a Min-Pin in
the distance. As they get with in a 1/2 block I stop Yoshi and
start rewarding him for sitting in front of me giving me
attention. As the other dog gets within 3 car lengths I turn
Yoshi so he can see the dog. He starts to react and I shove
treats in his face to stop the reaction and get his attention. We
then have turned around and we parallel walk with the other dog and I
have him heel. He alternates rapidly between starting to
lunge, which I interrupt with collar pressure and "leave it" and
offering heeling with good attention (which I reward). 1/2 a
block passes and he's still stressed and trying to at least stare
(precurser to a lunge), and then immediately offer attention.
What I'm looking for is him relaxing around the other dog. The
important (critical) part of CAT is the dog's barking, lunging, and
general carrying does not make the other dog go away. The only
thing that works is your dog relaxing.
Another 1/2 block passes, I know he can't keep this up and I see him
stop leaning forward so much and standing on his toes. Another
1/4 of a block and he's starting to walk like a normal dog so at the
next cross street we turn off. This was successful and turned out
much better than I expected. One reason I don't normally do CAT
is that it takes a lot of prep and usually takes people to help you as
most normal dog owners are going to want to keep their dogs away from a
reactive dog. It's only working for us because I can hide the
fact that Yoshi is reactive.
This is sort of similar to our original "follow that dog" game where I
discovered that after a dog has passed then Yoshi is fine with
following them, which helped me to figure out that it's dog's
approaching that are his trigger.
Ok so what is CAT? In short CAT is Constructional Aggression Treatment
and is a technique developed by Jesús Rosales-Ruiz, PhD &
Kellie Snider. Rosales-Ruiz is on the Clicker Expo faculty and is
a very well respected behaviorist (Here's another ref and you can order the DVD here or here). Because I have attended
Clicker Expo I am on the clickerexpo list and I get their email.
I have been collecting it for 2 years and while it's not Rosales common
list it is a place were he and other faculty members debate the merits
of one technique vs another. It is based on Negative
Reinforcement, which is not a common area that clicker trainers use so
we're all in unfamiliar territory. Negative Reinforcement is the
removal of something unpleasant as a reward. For years the most
common example was an earpinch, which was appalling enough of an
example that several of us didn't think any further about it (I used to
describe it as "The beatings till continue until moral improves."
Years later I realized that a Snooze Button is a perfect example.
So it took some outside the box thinking by Rosales that there are more
human versions of the same thing. Unpleasant things (to dogs)
happen all the time and they react in not always the best of ways to
make it go away. Rosales' technique is have the reactive dog leashed to
a person, another person with a steady dog appears at a set distance
away. If the reactive dog reacts the neutral dog stops but does
not leave. The reactive dog continues to do what ever and his/her
handler just stands there. Treats are not involved. When
Fiesty Fydeau (I stole that term from Jean McDonald - though it's my
spelling) stops, the other dog leaves as a reward. This is the
really important part. The reactive dog has to try his/her usual
repetoir of behaviors and they can't be allowed to work. The only
thing that works to make the dog go away is calm behavior.
Eventually (and surprisingly quickly) the aggressive dog stops posturing
and the test dog can approach more closely without a reaction.
Now I filed that away as interesting, but not very practical (it's
trainer intensive and pretty stressful on all concerned if you have a truly scary
aggressive dog), but Lori showed me a Whole Dog Journal article that
Pat Miller wrote about it and I remembered that Clicker Expo was
talking about it so I dug it up and showed it to her. I also
remembered that CAT came up on the CU_Dogs from time to time and Leslie
was of the opinion that CU and CAT don't mix.
Lori is wondering if there actually is a way to combine them and add
well trained rewardable behaviors like obedience exercises. She
may be on to something. If a [trained] dog is willing to chill
out and work in the presence of another dog that should be
rewardable. The work can be CU exercises or obedience exercises
or tricks or anything else besides lunging and barking.
Now will this work with Yoshi? Maybe. He goes to Oakland
Dog Training Club and nothing he does makes those dogs go away, so he's
pretty relaxed there, except for dogs entering (the big bugaboo).
He so wants to scream at the entering dog, so CAT may not change
that. His being allowed to rant is enough of a stress relief that
he may do that even if it gets him no reward at all. These days
he knows what is expected of him so I may not need to shove cream
cheese in his face (CU approach - there's a scary dog - have a cookie -
a useful skill that he has), but instead interrupt and get his head
back in the
game. The subtext is pretty funny: THERE'S A DOG AAAA!
<pull on leash> Oh sorry, what were we doing? Oh, heeling. Ok, I
can do that. THERE'S A DOG AAAAA! [and repeat and repeat] That
combined with herbal calming stuff may just do it.
[Trek Agility Class]
Thu Nov 6
Been so hard to concentrate on dog training with such politial goings on, but it really is a welcome respite.
Trek Walk. uneventful save for a scary street sweeper that she
mostly hung in there are ate treats while it passed but she so wanted
Yoshi. Experimenting with using "Relax" as a conditioned response
all by itself (usually I'm massaging him when I say it.) This
morning an outside dog was barking and I repeatedly told him to
Relax. It took a lot of reps but it did work. It happened
again at night and again it took a lot of reps but ultimately worked,
the outide dog barked again and he didn't respond.
Both. Working on the Relaxation Protocol on mats. Terri had
the idea of using some of our DVDs that have the dogs barking.
They usually bark when they hear dogs barking (even themselves -
haven't taught them about recordings.) So we had them on mats
with me treating them and played the DVD at low volume. They
didn't respond at all to the barking, just wanted their treats.
Turned up the volume. Same thing. Started moving around a
little. Same Thing. Turned it up louder, moved around
some. They stayed put. Wow, what good dogs. I didn't
push it to knocking as I wanted them to be successful and together
they're worse than when together. Save they're really observant
when one gets a treat and the other doesn't - like when one is sitting
up and the other is laying down.
Wed Nov 5
Took Yoshi on a walk at noon. We were walking down Central and he
tensed and started to lunge but I grabbed him. Looking up to see
what was coming I realized nothing was coming at all. What was
going on is two bully breed dogs were tethered to the fence two houses
away while their owners worked in the yard. Seeing Yoshi's
distress, one owner came over to assure me that they were friendly and
tethered. i thanked him but said that Yoshi was afraid of them
and I'd like to let him have some space. Yoshi had settled and
was starting to play LAT so we did that for a little while and then
crossed the street to relieve the pressure as a reward.
Tue Nov 4
The dogs survived an election night party (Yoshi had his valerian
herbal medicine). I have very mixed feelings. See the
Sun Nov 2
Yoshi Walk. He did quite well except for one incident that took
me totally by surprise. We were praticing whiplash turns and
suddenly he saw something and immediately tried to lunge past me.
Spinning around I see two dogs running on the street. They're
attached to bike with human riders on them. Yeesh, I'd bark
too. I started to feed him to settle him down but after one treat
I decided that I didn't like the timing of it (looked too much like a
reward to me) so I just held him till he called down. The rest of
the walk was uneventful and he is paying exxcellent attention to me,
and rewarded often for it. Worked a little on the treat tossing
on the ground as a reward for attention. I go through a lot more
treats this way and am still not convinced it will help but it's worth
Gail and Arlene's Not At [USDAA] Nationals Party. Trek got to go
and despite throwing up later from eating too many of the wild
strawberries that were on the ground there, we all had a very nice
time. We watched the live feed on the internet so didn't feel
quite so left out. Trek didn't do as much running around as I would have
liked, but did get out some. She had a grand time commandeering
Gail's lap for a while. I like that she was not a shrinking
violet. Her shrinking violet days may be over. Unless there
is a passel of screaming children nearby, though even that may be
Sat Nov 1
Did some Relaxation Protocol with Trek. Also did some more wobble board work.
Archive - Go to:
and Trek Training Diary - Oct 2008
and Trek Training Diary - Sep 2008
and Trek Training Diary - Aug 2008
and Trek Training Diary - Jul 2008
and Trek Training Diary - Jun 2008
and Trek Training Diary - May 2008
and Trek Training Diary - Apr 2008
and Trek Training Diary - Mar 2008
and Trek Training Diary - Feb 2008
and Trek Training Diary - Jan 2008
and Trek Training Diary - Dec 2007
and Trek Training Diary - Nov 2007
and Trek Training Diary - Oct 2007
and Trek Training Diary - Sep 2007
and Trek Training Diary - Aug 2007
and Trek Training Diary - Jul 2007
and Trek Training Diary - Jun 2007
and Trek Training Diary - May 2007
and Trek Training Diary - Apr 2007
and Trek Training Diary - Mar 2007
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Yoshi Training Diary - Dec 2006
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